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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 4	Posted - 2011.11.04 22:33:00 - [1] - Quote Plz make sure to give the Naga bonus for hybrids only. The Typhoon, Moa and Ferox was changed for a reason not that long ago... Giving the Naga the option to fit launchers will be nice for an alternative giving variety and a few advantages in return for less dps (just like the Rokh), however forcing split weapons just doesn't work.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 4	Posted - 2011.11.04 22:43:00 - [2] - Quote Btw How does a Tornado handle vs a Hurricane or Typhoon? How does an Oracle perform vs a Harbinger or Geddon?
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 4	Posted - 2011.11.04 23:29:00 - [3] - Quote I still think it's a shame if these babies can fit the highest tier blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers though... If they will be able to, at least make sure they get REAL advantages of using lower tiers. Like MUCH better tracking or similar. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 4	Posted - 2011.11.04 23:51:00 - [4] - Quote LOL - And nobody even care to put the Naga up for comparison... Because range just doesn't work as a substitute for raw damage when you cant get a practical advantage anywhere...
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 17	Posted - 2011.11.07 15:13:00 - [5] - Quote My experience with the 4 new tier 3 battlecruisers : The attributes of these ships are fantastic - They almost feel too good to be true. And when something feels wrong it usually is... Amongst themself the Tornado, Oracle and Naga seems well balanced but the Talos gets the stick a lot. Besides this the roles of the ships need to be far more specific and consistent. Battlecruisers with big guns simply isn't enough of a role for this eye candy!! SPEED Currently the tier 3 battlecruisers are retardely fast and likely even able to outrun even cruisers!! Someone must have watched too much spaceballs: http://youtu.be/ZFqbAGqKTsE The Tornado doing over 1600 m/s with a MWD and no speed mods is ridiculous and totally out of place. My Naga did over 1300 m/s and was faster than a plated Talos w/ Trimarks. Yes, these new babies need to be faster than battleships, but IMO they shouldn't be able to outrun and kite T1 cruisers and battlecruisers. Also it hurts me to see the gallente Talos sticking to the last place when we know how important it is to get in range. I would look into getting it it more in line like this (Base velocity with maxed skills) : Caracal 223m/s - Vexor 199m/s - Stabber 361m/s (w/ ship bonus) - Omen 226m/s - Average 252m/s Moa 205m/s - Thorax 213m/s - Rupture 240m/s - Maller 205m/s - Average 216m/s Ferox 175m/s - Brutix 181m/s - Cyclone 206m/s - Prophecy 188m/s - Average 187m/s Drake 175m/s - Myrm 181m/s - Cane 206m/s- Harb 188m/s - Avg = 187m/s Scorp 118m/s - Domi 124m/s - Phoon 163m/s - Geddon 131m/s - Avg = 134m/s Raven 118m/s - Mega 131m/s - Temp 150m/s - Apoc 118m/s - Avg = 129m/s NAGA should as a long range hybrid ship be between 175m/s and 223m/s (base velocity + skills) -> 180m/s base? TALOS should as a blaster ship be between 181m/s and 213m/s (base velocity + skills) -> 195m/s base? TORNADO should be between 206m/s and 240m/s (base velocity + skills) -> 190m/s base? ORACLE should be between 188m/s and 226m/s (base velocity + skills) - 185m/s base? This said in general with a majority of minmatar ships fitting shield tanks and blaster boats being designed for armor I believe the velocity stats between gallente and minmatar should be reversed, however that belongs in a fix to blasters and not a tier 3 BC discussion. SLOT LAYOUT : I kind of likes the slot layouts a lot. It looks rather balanced without neither pre-nerfing or boosting the ships. What worries me though are 2 things: The estetics of having a battlecruiser crammed up with heavy weaponry only the tier 3 battleships can rival and the danger of having battlecruisers with a devastating alphastrike. And well I also think it will be a great shame to have the ship cost punked up a great deal from 8!! large weapons. In my opinion these ships would not only look much better, but also be more balanced fitting only 4 or 6 turrets and adjusting the damage over RoF role bonus. The leftover hi-slots should be removed to not allow any utility slots. FITTING : I feel a bit sad to see these ships easily being able to fit the biggest short range weapons and also being able to fit the highest tier of long range weapons. In my opinion they should not be able to fit more than tier 2 long range weaponry even with maxed skills, rigs, reactor controls and implants... BONUS : Usually the most debated part of ships and often one of the most important features of a ship. They should ofcourse fit the racial themes as well as supplementing the role of the ships - And it seems the current bonus are way off... First off the ships need the role bonus to fit the large weaponry - Make sure people cannot fit too big weapons without the use of fitting modules etc... We also need a role bonus to make sure the ships are capable of running their weaponry if they are using capacitor. I believe the current stats are too forgiving in regards to cap and should be a little more tight. Then if the ships get fewer actual weapons on their hulls we need a bonus to compensate. A damage bonus will break the purpose of cutting the number of guns down to avoid a high alpha, but 6 guns with a 25% ROF bonus will be equal to having 8 guns and 4 guns with a 50% ROF role bonus will also be equal to having 8 guns. Now what these ships REALLY need for a PROPER ROLE BONUS is a bonus to enable the weapons hitting while you have a higher transversal than the guns are designed for. All ships should get a 25% Tracking role bonus to help hit their targets while getting under the guns on battleships. TALOS and TORNADO should have an additional tracking bonus 5% pr level as their first bonus. NAGA is fine with the 10% optimal bonus as the first bonus (or is it 5%?). ORACLE is also fine with 10% cap bonus for the lasers as the first bonus (or is it 5%?). TALOS to set itself apart from the caldari counterpart should have a damage bonus 5% pr level as second bonus. TORNADO also deserves to be a damage dealer and should as second bonus have a ROF bonus 5% pr level. NAGA and ORACLE to support their ranged bonus should be granted a bonus towards 10% Shield/armor pr level. Plz note that CCP can also use the amount of turrets to regulate dps in case one or more ships should need it. TORPEDOS : I have nothing against torpedos, but it is such a shame to dedicate the tier 3 BC to torpedos when CCP have made a fantastic model with the ability to carry friggin beutiful huge guns... Should CCP decide to they can easily insert missile bonus, but keep in mind the ship need 2 bonus to whatever they decide.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 19	Posted - 2011.11.08 00:27:00 - [6] - Quote If anyone are nervous about these ships not being able to take out battleships without their ridiculous fast speed I would suggest a 100% role bonus on afterburners... With a tracking role bonus and their already small signature that should do a pretty good job. with a MWD those tier 3 battlecruisers are way too fast. Being able to run from even cruisers is just way out of touch with the spirit of the game
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 20	Posted - 2011.11.08 11:31:00 - [7] - Quote So CCP want to make the tier 3 BCs a special role to kill battleships. - They give them battleship weapons - They make them faster than cruisers - They make them 2/3 the signature of tier 2 BCs (about half the sig of battleships) - They give them very little hitpoints (40% of tier 2 BC) with no tank bonuses The problem with having these ships faster than cruisers is people will use them as near uncatchable ships kiting down HAC's and battlecruiser using the increased range (where tracking doesn't matter much) and superior firepower to their advantage. It might not be easy but this is what people already do with HACs, Faction cruisers and similar. At range you rarely need any tank whatsoever and usually a few logistics can easily keep up the shields of unresisted Cynabals and single extender fitted zealots... The role for these ships shold be to slip under the radar on battleships getting under their guns. This means the ships have to be fast, small and agile while being able to track better than the battleships. I have no trouble having these ships being fast to close the range on battleships and get under their guns, however they must not be able to outrun cruisers and they shouldn't be much faster than their tier 1 and 2 sisterclasses... I will strongly suggest to reduce the current sisi speeds with 40-50m/s base speed. The battleship weaponry is super cool. A very nice idea and a seemingly balanced way of making the dps work well on big targets and not so much on anything smaller. This said I would be carefull allowing the ships to fit the biggest of guns with ease. I would rather use the bonuses to to balance the guns instead of having them fit the biggest tiers. Giving these ships a 25% tracking role bonus makes a lot of sense and at the same time they should have a bonus that makes them faster than battleships but not faster than cruisers. By giving these babies a 100% Afterburner Speed role bonus you can allow the ships to close up on battleships while maintaining their small signature AND even if webbed they will be able to orbit battleships without taking a lot of damage. The blasters and autocannons might need one of their bonus to be towards tracking or the AB orbit will make them hit too much, where the caldari and amarr can orbit further out having a optimal bonus for the caldari ship and the laser cap bonus for the Oracle... This leaves 2nd bonuses open and with no tank bonuses I would suggest a damage 5% pr level bonus (25% more damage @ lv5) for the NAGA & ORACLE while the TALOS & TORNADO getting a ROF 5% pr level bonus (33% more damage @ lv5) The much faster afterburner speed should make it very favourable with the bonus of not being scrambled. On top it prevents the super fast pvp kiting techniques wich I'm sure wasn't meant to be how these should fight battleships... Also the signature doesn't bloom while chasing (which could otherwise easily cause a undesirable explosion) The role bonus for tracking on top of the extra tracking bonus on 2 of the ships should certainly make them outtrack a battleship as they will be orbiting much faster than a BS would be able to. Also depending on how they will handle against other battlecruisers and the battleships they are designed to engage CCP will easily be able to upscale the amount of hitpoints to increase survivability without ever being afraid of having the ships perform as flying invinsibility. DPS will easily be adjustable by the number of guns. I am a big fan of only fitting 3,4 or 6 guns on the ships and regulating on a role ROF like marauders... If one ship is overpowered just take a gun away from it or if the Talos ends up underpowered just give it an extra gun. Plz do not unleash these ships with their game breaking stats and mismatch of role vs bonus.. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 22	Posted - 2011.11.08 14:03:00 - [8] - Quote Iam Widdershins wrote: Pinky Denmark wrote: TL;DR I want awesome unhittable BS/BC killers that can't be scrammed! lol no If the base speed gets reduced to not be faster than cruisers and only slightly faster than other battlecruisers these tier 3 battlecruisers will easily be caught and webbed by anything smaller than a battleship that has a microwarpdrive... (I guesstimate the max velocity with afterburner being about 1.000m/s for the fast Tornado and Talos without speed modules) They will be difficult hitting with battleship weapons, however any small and medium weapons will ignore any attempts to dodge the bullet. If Im wrong it will clearly show, but how will we know if it doesn't get considered and tested...
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 23	Posted - 2011.11.08 14:39:00 - [9] - Quote Ganthrithor wrote: finally there's a T1 ship I can buy for less than 200m that might actually be useful for PvP outside weird niche roles. Dude, you should look into Ruptures, Hurricanes, Typhoons and Tempests all very versatile being amongst the most versatile and usefull ships for pvp...
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 23	Posted - 2011.11.08 15:11:00 - [10] - Quote Ganth I mentioned some of the fastest and hardest hitting ships around and you still want something much faster and harder hitting? These are in my poinion proof that you have no objectivity and grasp of consequences. Good luck m8

Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 26	Posted - 2011.11.09 10:41:00 - [11] - Quote We cannot afford having battlecruiser outrunning cruisers and HACs no matter how much they need to get INTO range or KITE battleships... Reduce the speeds to make them sane and increase survivability by giving them a smaller signature and more hitpoints (makes them live longer but not easier to keep alive). Also against battleships these ships does not need alpha - reduce the number of guns and compensate with a ROF bonus. It will reduce build cost, lower alpha and keep the same damage. Also I'm still very interested in the afterburner ideas... I'd love to give them either fitting bonus for large afterburners or speed bonus for medium afterburners. Balanced so they will not be faster than MWDing cruisers but still faster than MWDing battleships on the top. Also I'm very interested in listening to how CCP will prevent the Naga from being an abomination. I would be real sad to see Caldari being the only race not getting to use those fine L-cannons on a BC hull. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 26	Posted - 2011.11.09 11:48:00 - [12] - Quote I do agree we need action so we can test this in able time for the launch, however I rather want well thought changes giving us the required time to test and give feedback. Stats changing every other day on test server will be difficult reflecting on. Also I believe it's the same people being resposible for all the balances so lets give them a break for at least 10-15 minutes Pinky EDIT: What is the speed with those 100mn ABs and how do they handle/react with agility and acceleration?
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 27	Posted - 2011.11.09 14:32:00 - [13] - Quote Even a Moa can surprise people - I see fun kills with people using logistics to heal-zero people :p That doesn't mean they have great offensive capabilities...
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 30	Posted - 2011.11.12 19:23:00 - [14] - Quote That is bull*** - Proteus is the singlehanded most heavily buffertanked T3 cruiser in the game even more tank than a Legion. Also it has a divine tackling bonus easily capable of working with armor fleets. That said however I'm tired of hearing "optimal bonus is a damage bonuse" talk about Caldari because range plays little to no role in current battles and it makes it impossible to mix stuff like the rokh because of difference in range and huge difference in damage/volley damage. dammit!!!
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 30	Posted - 2011.11.12 20:50:00 - [15] - Quote you might be right legion and proteus might not be super versatile but they still have areas where they work VERY well... Also I know the theory about optimal bonus as damage bonus, however: In fleets with other ships you will usually warp-in at fleets lowest range - you can use higher dps ammo, but the other ships have a damage bonus instead. If you engange under the range of your AM ammunition you no longer have an advantage because you cannot go lower If you are shooting further than the other ships you do almost no damage and certainly a low volleydamage You will have trouble keeping the enemy in any position where a railgun might have an advantage. The Rokh isn't bad and it has advantages, however those are so few in practical pvp something has to be done... Even with a much better tank people will refuse to use it in fleets even should sniper fleets be popular again (why would they with on-site probing and current game mechanics?). Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 30	Posted - 2011.11.15 11:07:00 - [16] - Quote The Naga now being a complete railplatform is a very good decission... The damage bonus making it usefull in the same way as the other tier 3 BCs. People complaining about lack of torpedos don't know what is best for them and the REAL background behind caldari and the line of caldari ships... The ships however still have to get their max speeds reduced to be in line with the rest of the game. Either by increasing their mass a lot and/or reducing their base velocity while compensating with reduced signature and perhaps more hitpoints to receive little damage from battleship weapons themself. Also allowing the Talos to carry drones seems against the concept. Instead perhaps the battlecruisers should carry 4 guns with a marauderbonus and a utility slot for a neut/nos/smartbomb? Historically (not that it matters) I believe many of the first battlecruisers were barges with battleship guns getting towed out in front of harbours and getting sunk down to reduced their signature above water... Having the tier 3 battlecruisers able to outrun hacs/cruisers is like poking people in the eye with a hot stick. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 36	Posted - 2011.11.18 11:15:00 - [17] - Quote People claiming that caldari is all about missiles and gallente all about drones are wrong and need to get away from their narrow track of thoughts... Caldari have some good missile ships and Gallente have some nice drone ships - But Hybrids are still our legacy and with a few tweaks here and there they will be just as effecient or much more than missiles/drones. You guys should be happy to get some versatility and trust me a Hybrid Naga will be better than a Torp Naga even if you will need a different aproach. I believe however we have a problem with the current Tier 3 BCs in the lack of a clear purpose. It seems as CCP wanted to give the battlecrusiers battleship weapons, however currently the only thing they are really good at is sniping/suicide ganking because up and close I'd rather want to use tier 2 BC's with double EHP and almost same dps... This said they all seem pretty balanced among themself. Imo it's too easy to fit the largest long range weapons though and the Tornado might still be just a little bit too fast. I really believe the Talos drone bonus ruins the concept without adding much to the Talos. I would make sure these ships had a signature radious closer to 150m enabling them even better to fight battleships and bigger. with their current low hitpoints, no bonus for tank and lack of drones/utility slots this is exactly what they should be good at. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 36	Posted - 2011.11.18 15:05:00 - [18] - Quote wether or not caldari players trained hybrids or not has NOTHING to do with why the Naga should be a torpedo or hybrid ship...
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 39	Posted - 2011.11.19 14:24:00 - [19] - Quote Rokh won't get used because the optimal bonus makes it a long range ship. On TQ it is very very rare to see any important battles with long range battleships as they just don't work with the current game mechanics. Being super difficult to pin people at sniping range and getting probed in 30 seconds just isn't worth it in big, slow and expensive ships. Also having a optimal range makes the Rokh unable to compete short range as everything else does at least 25% more damage and don't forget on TQ hybrids still stink. Making everything a missile boat is NOT the solution. Look at the raven and tell me why they aren't used much for PvP if missiles are so great? The only reason Drakes work is because of ALPHA combined with TANK being able to save many of them with logistics. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 39	Posted - 2011.11.19 16:14:00 - [20] - Quote HA HA - You are whining like my 6 year old kid... Give it time and CCP will attend the visual launcher thing. Tbh missiles seems pretty balanced to me all around except light missiles. They are just different and NO race is forced to use missiles. They are even if you pretend it's wrong a secondary weapon system with a few ships using it as their primary...

Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 39	Posted - 2011.11.21 15:06:00 - [21] - Quote Caldari people only training up missile skills are spoiled and have little grasp of reality. Neglecting to train drones and hybrids is one thing but complaining about not getting missiles on a new ship is such a waste of time and energy...
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 41	Posted - 2011.11.23 11:53:00 - [22] - Quote The Talos drones is pulling the concept apart... But plz remember these ships are meant to fight battleships using their small signature to their advantage.Against battlecruisers and smaller you will likely be better off with medium weaponry. I also believe the Tornado is too fast and all ships should have an even smaller signature radious. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 42	Posted - 2011.11.23 16:10:00 - [23] - Quote You won't see Rokhs a lot because People will have to actively play to do missions with it instead of slugging missiles Optimal bonus is useless for a fleet ship already having the best range Most other battleships does 25% more damage under 50km Getting any dps benefits with range is near impossible in a fluid battle Hybrids have their damage types locked up pretty tight Large Shield Extenders are not as effecient as 1600mm plates and active tanks sucks for fleet pvp The Naga is different in many areas and should not be compared directly.
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 46	Posted - 2011.11.28 12:47:00 - [24] - Quote Typhoon is a working battleship fully capable of using torpedos. Raven allthough not being a super solid ship for pvp works really well on the weapons department. Each race have a stealth bomber capable of delivering 400-600 dps worth of torpedo damage. Obviously all people would love a new ship fitting the thing THEY would like to do, but the decission to make the Naga a hybrid ship is a decission fitting well into the caldari ship line as well as being a better choice to do the job intended for the new tier 3 BCs. Pinky
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 46	Posted - 2011.11.28 15:10:00 - [25] - Quote Indeed CCP have failed explaining what intended role they wanted to give the tier 3 battlecruisers, however as they get slaughtered up close by anything using drones, web or energy neutralizer I believe they are intended as fast long range platforms. And for sure missiles doesn't work very well in long range pvp. Certainly not compared against turrets with instant damage able to deliver huge damage even on small targets if the tracking is sufficient. If CCP had made the Naga a Torpedo ship they would give caldari another cheap ratting boat with minimal use for pvp. People tend to forget or never realize that missiles have always been a secondary weapon used by a few ships as their primary. Just as drone fans have drone boats in almost each ship class the caldari already have missile boats in almost every ship class and as a race wouldn't benefit from another Drake that can only shoot battleships. It would instead pull Caldari further away from their legacy in hybrids that finally gets some attention to hopefully make people use them without being condemned as a failure even before undocking. And the reason I mentioned stealth bombers is because even T2 they are super cheap and easy to get into using aproximately the same tactics as the new tier 3 BCs. They are small and fast - Capable of dealing damage with BS sized weapons at long range in return for not having a big tank. Pinky EDIT: New players have it way easier than veterans and Eve is specifically designed for new players to be able to specialize and compete with veterans without getting absolutely curbstomped. And it is absolutely possible to catch up rather fast...

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